Le topic des filtres nvidia

» 09 Sep 2004 14:13

Hello.

Suite à ce topic :
http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/view ... t=29750097

où grâce à Vairulez et Geo trouveTout nous avons été informés de l'actualité nvidia, je lance ce topic pour centraliser les infos présentes et futures sur les filtres nvidia.

Le post de référence sur AVS est :
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthre ... did=429080

Pour commencer le topic, je recopie juste l'annonce officielle de nvidia :
1) We have decided to only ship 3.x with OEM, Retail and NVIDIA.COM hardware bundles. There are currently no plans to sell 3.x as a standalone application or decoder pack. The bundles typically include either the DVD/Music/Photos/Videos application or the full suite including TV, PVR, EPG, DVD Burning, etc. It is likely that the 4.x decoder will be available for purchase via NVIDIA.COM at some point in the future. The best way to get 3.x decoders today is via a board bundle. The best way to get 4.x decoders in the very near future is via TheaterTek 2.0 or MS MediaCenter 2004 systems from OEMs that have choosen to ship the NVIDIA solution.

2) There are many different types of decoder packages available out there today. Some are locked to NVIDIA hardware, some are locked to certain applications and some are fully unlocked and can be used on any manufactures hardware and any application. The choice of which style of locks are used is purely up to the OEM or retail partner. This should explain the situations in which same version decoders from different sources behave differently on different systems/environments.

4) 4.x is our newest version and includes support for hardware accelerated cadence based inv 3:2 pulldown as well as lots of other quality improvements. Cadence based inv 3:2 is the same feature that is in the VPP today but using hardware instead of software.

5) 4.x is the version that we have qualified for use with Microsoft MCE 2004 as well as TheaterTek 2.0. The team has worked very closely with TheaterTek and Microsoft MCE teams to ensure that the 4.x decoders are the absolute best that they can be.

» 09 Sep 2004 15:43

Pour vous mettre encore plus l'eau a la bouche voici quelques commentaires du developpeurs de theatertek sur les filtres :

1)Well, the audio/video decoders are state of the art from a design perspective and have been very thoroughly tested with all the latest OS/DirectX changes.
The VPP is an excellent feature doing reverse 2:3 pulldown detection based on the frames and not the flags on the DVD. nVidia hardware lets you do this in DXVA mode otherwise it is true post-processor in software mode. Note it still works with FFDShow.
The video decoding is also very smooth.

2) voici un autre commentaire qui met aussi en exergue la qualite des nouvelles cartes nvidia
I said I wouldn't get into the video card debate, but what I will do is tell you my own personal experience testing TT 2.0. I recently have had the chance on several occasions to test a few cards with TheaterTek 2.0 on a Sony G90 projector. The owner is well-known on AVS and works with projectors for a living.
I've always been a digital guy but the PQ on the G90 was just jaw-dropping with contrast, color saturation and sharpness that I've never seen before. Using TT 2.0 in this environment revealed every, and I mean every flaw or detail in the source material. Basically what I'm saying is that if the DVD is mastered poorly, you'll notice it, if it's mastered well, your jaw hits the floor. Very similar to a high end audio system in fact.
For kicks we had both a MP modified 9700 Pro and an MP modified 5700 Ultra and switched cables between them. We were also able to compare Overay vs. VMR7 and VMR9. FFDShow was not used in any of the tests.
In brief, the observations were that the ATI hardware overlay produced a harsh, over-sharpened image and in software mode did not have the clarity of the 5700 which produced an outstanding desktop picture (DAC quality). Comparing Overlay vs VMR7/9 is somewhat harder as the overlay still produces a slightly sharper image than the VMR, but after several sit-down experiments we settled on the VMR.

3)voici un commentaire d'un forumeur d'avs qui a ete beta testeur des filtres versions 3 a qui nvidia a envoye la version 4 (comme a tous les beta testeurs)
Thanks to Nvidia for providing 4.0 Decoders to beta testers. I just came back from a long vacation and installed new decoders. Did not have much time to play around with them, but I did watch some of my favorite clips. 4.0 is definitely improvement over 3.0 decoders.

Motion is smoother than before, and panning is almost flawless. Image is more detailed (sharper) then before and one can see it even without taking screenshots. What I liked the most is improvement in color rendering. Although color rendering was great with 3.0, with 4.0 colors are really, truly, absolutely filmlike to the point it is difficult for me to imagine further improvement in this area. And it also looks like CPU usage has dropped some 5% on my FX-51.

I am not sure what part of the improvement is due to 4.0 codec vs. new Nvidia driver (61.76 WQHL) and its synergy with 4.0 package, but the final result is more than I expected. I tested on my Quadro FX 1100 via DVI to Samsung 61" DLP, FFDShow Lanczos 4 resize to 1920x1440, VMR7/9, automatic or smart software decoding mode, forced AAx16 with gamma correction, forced AFx8, driver texture sharpening, LOD -24. The system I tested on has couple of SP2 beta paches and DX 9.0c. Nvidia has again done a great job.
Another thing I noticed after playing some more is that not only color rendering is improved, but it looks like overall image rendering (chroma and luma) is greatly improved. For example, all darker objects close to source of light are now rendered completely different, and much better. There is no blinding effect any more, and you can actualy start seeing detail in what was completely crushed before (not crushed because of bad display calibration - my display is always calibrated and gamma correctly set). My example is where you can see the most dramatic improvement, but luma seems to be rendered better (i.e. with more detail/gradations) accross the board. I wonder if that happens because of 4.0, or is this Nvidia's new high dynamic-range (HDR) rendering (which is not advertised on Quadro FX 1100, but still might be supported). Did anybody notice similar effect (HDR) on 6800 series of cards with other decoders?

bonne lecture

» 10 Sep 2004 13:52

J'aimerais bien en savoir un peu plus sur le HDR... :wink:

@+
Emmanuel

» 10 Sep 2004 13:52

J'aimerais bien en savoir un peu plus sur le HDR... :wink:

@+
Emmanuel

» 10 Sep 2004 14:20

nouvelle annonce de nvdia de ce matin :

If we were to sell a "decoder pack" the video decoder would not be locked to any specific applications or hardware. The audio decoder is another story however. It includes licensed technologies from Dolby and DTS. These licenses disallow use of the decoder with non-certified applications.

None of the requested apps are certified as far as I know. Here is the current request list. Please correct me if I'm mistaken.

ZoomPlayer, SageTV, myTheater, Meedio, GotAllMedia

As HTPC users, it is up to you to solicit your favorite app provider to get Dolby and or DTS certification.

Please let us know if your primary interest lies in the video decoder or not. If so, none of these restrictions should effect you.

If however you would like to use the audio decoder on something other than a certified app (ie. Windows Media Player, Windows Media Center, NVDVD, FWMM, etc) then you will need to discuss options with your app provider.

donc avec un peu de chance, les filtres videos seront achetables sous peu !!!!

dernier commentaire de vpopovic concernant son association 6800GT+filtres v4.0 (pour resumer, c'est meilleur que son association fx1100+filtres v4.0)

I am glad you like your 6800 GT. I agree that flesh tones are important part of testing, after all we don't want the hardware to distort it.

I did some more tweaking and things look realy spectacular. With 1920x1920 Lanczos4 and AAx4, AFx16, shapness for most movies can even go one noch up from quarer mark in driver settings. As far as Rivatuner, 2.15.1 does not have many more HTPC useful features than 2.15, but good news is it supports 65.90 driver and all settings work realy well. Most important ones are in 3D and Ogl tabs where you want to override any filtering optimizations and choose application based texture compression. I also set LOD bias for both 3D and Ogl to -15 and I'll post tomorrow how to get there. There are also some more registry tweaks that I might post later when I test them. Let's hope we will at one point get official drivers that will have all the goodies.

I did some more watching in complete peace this evening after early bed time for my family, and I must admit that I am finally completely blown away with the image quality. Everything looks better than on old Quadro, and colors and dynamic range in the movies are most unbelievable. It is almost a true cinematic experience. I wanted to test Disc 2 of LOTR FOTR EE as it has incredible colors and ended up watching almost the whole thing. I have never, ever seen colors like that, not even on equipment that costs 20 or 30K, and all from a relatively inexpensive HTPC and now already crapy 61" HD2 DLP. I think Faroudja and the gang are in serious trouble. Some of the benefit goes to 4.0 codec as well. Anyway, 6800 cards in fully tweaked form with proper drivers are rated must-have HTPC component.

» 11 Sep 2004 10:52

Je me méfie bcp du discours comme quoi les couleurs sont encore améliorées, que l'image est encore plus belle etc. :wink:

. Qd je vois l'absence complète de protocoles de test, on est là à fond dans le subjectif :roll:

Pourtant la vidéo est vraiment le domaine ou il est facile de faire des comparaisons via de simples captures de la même frame. Perso, je ne pense pas que le décodage des couleurs ait bcp changé entres les versions beta 3.xxxx et la 4 ...

Ce qui est certain, c'est que les filtres nvidia travaillent dans l'espace 16-235 du luma des DVD avec une retranscription des infos présentes dans les DVD en dehors de cette plage (ie [0,15] et [236-255]). La question est de savoir s'il y a bcp d'info (pixel) en dehors de 16-235 et si cette info est vraiment "pertinente" pour l'image (le fameux blacker than black et whiter than white). Le débat a fait rage sur AVS. Quelques développeurs de chez microsoft ont montré sur des snapshots de DVD Z1 tous les points en dehors de la plage "officielle" [16-235] est c'est vrai qu'il y en avait pas mal. Quoi qu'il en soit, on se dirige apparamment vers l'adoption de l'espace de couleur 16-235 en vidéo PC alors qu'avant il y avait systématiquement une mise à l'échelle 16-235 vers 0-255 (passage de RGB[16-235] à RGB[0,255]).

Bien sûr, on peut toujours jouer sur le contraster et la luminosité pour "caller" les valeurs de noir et de blanc comme on l'entends. Reste qu'il ne faut pas faire ça n'importe comment et à n'importe quel niveau selon qu'on utilise le DVI ou la sortie VGA...

Tout ceci explique pourquoi je m'interroge sur la signification du "high dynamic-range (HDR) rendering" ...

Ce qui est aussi certain, c'est que les filtres nvidia sont les seuls à décoder correctement le chroma lorsque la source est un film (les autres filtres utilisent l'algo réservé aux vidéos pour les films alors que l'info de chroma n'est pas du tout encodé de la même manière dans les deux...).

J'espère qd même que le filtre nvidia sera capable de faire un 2:2 pulldown automatique et correct pour les DVD PAL car la vieille beta 3.x que j'ai à la maison en est incapable : il faut préciser la source (film ou vidéo) pour avoir un résultat correct.

Enfin le 3:2 pulldown automatique sans l'aide des flags (la plupart du temps erronés) pour les DVD NTSC est vraiment une bonne nouvelle pour tous les possesseurs de Z1 et Z3

@+
Emmanuel

» 11 Sep 2004 11:10

Sait on si les nouveaux filtres incorporent un demutiplexeur MPEG2 HD compatible ?

Pour l'instant aucun demux du marché n'est 100% satisfaisant pour la HD :-?

» 13 Sep 2004 11:45

Pas d'info sur le sujet. Mais rien n'indique que TT par exemple fournira ce type de filtre et je suis même assez pessimiste. Par exemple, il ne me semble pas qu'intervideo fourni par défaut un demux avec windvd...

Quels sont les pb que tu rencontres ? Je n'ai jamais eu de pb sur tous mes TS avec le demux de windvd fourni à une certaine époque par ffq sur AVS (mais je n'ai qu'une 15zaine de trailers TS à la maison, pas plus) ...

» 13 Sep 2004 14:39

Le problème c'est l'estimation de la durée du film et le seek.
J'utilise Universal Mpeg Splitter et Elecard Demux. Le premier calcule toujours correctement la durée de la video mais par contre il a du mal à se synchroniser quand tu essaye de te positionner quelque part dans le fichier, soit il n'y arrive jamais, soit ca prends enormément de temps. Le deuxième se synchronise très vite et sans soucis par contre il n'arrive pas à calculer correctement la longueur de la video dans certains cas

Ces fonctions sont essentielles pour le sous-titrage.

» 13 Sep 2004 14:42

je sais que ces fonctions etaient incluses dans la version beta de forceware multimedia 3.0 et je pense qu'elles le seront aussi dans TT 2.0, qd a savoir si le demux sera accessible sous ZP, j'ai de gros doutes ...

» 24 Sep 2004 13:42

quelques photos des options de theatertek 2.0 :

audio : http://www.theatertek.com/pic7.jpg
video : http://www.theatertek.com/pic6.jpg

aux vues de ces photos on peut penser que les filtres audio font du bass management

» 24 Sep 2004 14:52

Tu pourrais pas cliquer ds les options advanced et adjustment... de l'onglet audio :lol:

Aaaaah vivement...

J'ai vu un utilisateur bien connu qui pose des questions intéressantes

andrew, it looks like the audio filter can do bass management, am I right ?
Does it also controls delays ?
Can the center, left right ... speakers be assigned independently ?
I mean I have an rme hdsp9632 card witch can not be the windows default card.
So I need to tell the filters for instance to assign the front left speaker to "analog 1 output", the center speaker to "analog 2 ouput" left to "analog 3 ouput" ....
will it be possible ?

» 24 Sep 2004 15:06

Un post à lire absolument si vous voulez investir ds une 6800 est celui-là :

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthre ... did=441351

vpopovic est vraiment un acharné

. En tout cas, son post est passionnant et sa recette de cuisine pour installer les drivers des Quadro FX sur une 6800 est vraiment à retenir.

@+
Emmanuel

» 24 Sep 2004 15:33

Concernant le coût pour récupérer les derniers filtres nvidia (en plus de TT2.0 :wink:

) :

As there is now discussion around TheaterTek 2.0 which will be available in the next few weeks, I wanted to make clear that anyone who purchased TheaterTek 1.5 in the last 30 days or anyone who purchases it now will receive a free upgrade to TheaterTek 2.0 standard edition (providing same audio features as TT 1.5). The advanced audio version will still incur an upgrade cost.

Donc il semblerait qu'on puisse acheter de suite. Les filtres audio pour le décodage soft seront facturés en plus.

Est-ce quelqu'un sait si on peut faire facilement la registration si TT est installé sur un PC non connecté au net ? (il me semble que ce point avait fait couler bcp d'encre à une époque sur AVS).

@+
Emmanuel