Premiers Lecteurs HD-DVD disponibles... (US)

[ANTIPATCH]

"After seeing the new Toshiba in action with the supplied demo disk this weekend, I am certanly
one of those waiting to be 'blown away' by another H/D disk. I do not know, but would
assume that Toshiba would include highest-quality source material on the demo if they're
going to use this as a starting point in selling the player.

All I saw(on a 50-inch plasma display) was a very good, clear image - but not appreciably better
than that from a high-quality standard DVD (like 'North By Northwest ') upconverted to 1080i.
In fact, I can name at least two SuperBit standard DVDs('Hollow Man' and 'The Fifth Element') upcon'd to 1080i that look every bit as good(and maybe better) than what I saw on the Toshiba. AND, apparently I'm not alone; of all places, the main editorial on the Los Angeles Times within the last couple of weeks stated that it would take at least a 50-inch or larger screen for most viewers to see the difference. That's pretty accurate from what I saw. In fact, the reaction I had was essentially the same as that a few years ago to D-VHS images when
they first appeared. Very good, but not much of the 'WOW!' factor expected.

Let's don't forget that LG(which includes Zenith) has already confirmed to Reuters
that it will be offering a multi-format(standard, HD-DVD and Blu-Ray) player this fall. With
that in mind, can companies like Momitsu be far behind? Don't you think Momitsu will
allow the HD signal to be seen at 1080i via component as well? I think so.

So far, this is much ado about, well, not much, really."

[laric]

Non, enfin, c'est pas si simple, ca dépend si le disque est en mode "advanced" ou "standart"

--Patrice

[ANTIPATCH]

"Also, I can also confirm the poor 720p quality.

I first watched the Phantom of the Opera set to 1080i on for my Sony 55xs955 768p tv. Looked great, nothing mind blowing, but I wouldn't need it to be that much better and already looked great compared to the soft image of dvds.

I found a point in POTO opera to compare picture quality. Just after the new owners of the opera house view the practice session, that main singer goes up to the new owners upset, as she walks away they run back up to her where you then see a close up of her with all that make-up and detailed costume. Looked great in 1080i, even paused.

So I switch to 480p, go back to the spot and before that I already noticed the picture being much softer, just like a normal dvd. I couldn't see all the nice details in her make-up and costume, it was just soft looking. And pausing it looked pretty bad, large scan lines made it hard to look at, unlike the perfect paused image with 1080i.

Then I switch to 720p, and I swear, I wouldn't know I was watching HD, it looked just like 480p to me. Getting back to the part of her face close up it looked nothing like the 1080i setting, it more resembled the normal dvd again. Even pausing it looked bad, had large scanlines just like 480p did, make it hard to really look at.

So does this mean you are watching at 540p image like some people think, isn't that ED quality or the quality you'd get if playing and HDCP movie through analog and you get the lower resolution?

How can this thing be so screwed up, most HDTV owners have 720p type tvs and will logically set the player to 720p, which makes it look hardly better than normal dvds, this isn't going to be a good launch if this how most will experience HD-DVD format.

Luckily it defaults to 1080i and since most store displays are usually done without much knowledge they won't try to match the player resolution to the tv, 720p in most cases.

Does anyone else fine this horrible, such poor quality when set to 720p, the most used format at the moment".

[onkyo10]

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/control ... ype=search

[ANTIPATCH]

"So I bought one earlier today. I figured since my current DVD player was 6 years old I could justify it. Anyway, here are some preliminary things I found out playing with it for about two hours. Some of the stuff is contradictory to what I have read over the last few days. Also, PQ is based on my experience with HD and my eyes. One last thing, I was not able to get an HD disc, Best Buy would not sell it to me, but I will have one tomorrow.

1. Remote is generic. I did notice the down button doesn't always work.

2. I didn't think the start up time was long. I know a lot of people have said it was slow, but compared to my current DVD player it was fine.

3. Stout construction and good layout of outputs on the back.

4. SD DVD discs will only upconvert to 720p or 1080i thru HDMI. ***However, I have found that my DL DVD backups will upconvert through component out**** This is really cool.

5. The upconversion of SD DVD discs was ok. IMHO I felt that the upconversion was not any better than my TV's upconversion. I have just started playing with the setting, so I reserve the right to change my opinion on this.

6. I did not see a big difference between component and HDMI on SD DVD discs. Which is good for me since I only have one HDMI input on my TV and that has HD DirecTV TIVO going to it.

7. From SD DVD discs I did not see the problem of DD showing as DTS, so I am assuming this is only an issue with HD DVD discs.

8. For my TV (Mitsubishi 52525, 720p native) 720p out from the DVD player seemed to be the best for me. 1080i seemed to be grainy while 720p seemed to be soft. Again, I am still playing with the settings, so i may change my opinion on this.

9. I was able to switch from component to HDMI while the movie was playing which was great to compare those outputs. Also, I was able to change the resolution while the movie was playing, although it did go to a black screen while it resynced.

So that's it so far. I am not impressed or wowed yet, however, I have not played a HD DVD disc on it yet and I would not expect this unit to wow me with a SD DVD disc. I cannot wait to view HD DVD on it tomorrow."

[ANTIPATCH]

"Okay - Before y'all jump all over me. I also own 2 720 lcd's and have access to few more sets and god knows have calibrated (as a "friend") more than I care to mention.

But I still don't have my new panel, I love my ED panny plasma (42 6UY) and I love gadgets. So after touring around Sat - I ended up with one and the three movies today. Of course the first thing I did was to hook up to me ED Panny My usual DVD player of choice is a denon 2900...So I feel pretty comfortable in my ability to compare this. Also have a Panny S97(hooked up to the larger lcd).

Due to my prior experience with the upconversion of the S97 on the ED Panny - did not expect much from the Toshiba upconversion. Using the 5th element as the ref dvd - I fed my panny the signal from the Toshiba via HDMI/DVI cable at 1080i and also fed the component signal from my denon on the same dvd. ( I own several copies) A/B ing this setup there was minor improvement on the Toshiba. I would have to watch the whole thing to validate any specific issues MB etc. But I was suitably impressed that it was AS good and a tad sharper than my 2900. (Much better than when I tried this with the s97).

I then tried with LOTR - specifically to check black levels/contrast. I thought I detected EE from the toshiba upscaling - but will have to play more to validate. Still quite a remarkbale picture considering the comparison to a 2900 on an ED display.

Now on to HD. Since at this time I have no other comparison - other than what I witnessed on Saturday - I would give a modest improvement in PQ over the 2900 combo. The colors in Phantom seemed a tad deeper and the pic was cystal clear. Not owning this DVD or any of the HD DVD's - I could only use generalities. From what I recalled from my Sat jaunt - the PQ was better on the Pioneer elite. But one would expect that. I still am impressed that the color satration, white levels and contrast seemed to have improvement over what I consider to be a darn good setup(denon/panny). My 2900 is going into service elsewhere (sold it to a friend when I thught my new panel was on its way and my back up 1600 is broke). So being without a dvd player - the Toshiba looks to be a keeper. Is it light years better than my current player - nope. Nor would one expect it to be. However - it is VERY VERY good and I would have no problem advising a prospective purchase of this player to even an ED Plasma owner - assuming their display was calibrated and among the tops for PQ.

This player shows marginal improvement over the "tops" of dvd players for regular SD upconversion and had an edge for HD DVD. However, its 480p abilities over component or HDMI leave something to be desired. Upconverting is nearly as good as among the best of DVD players showing 480p and there is a benefot to HD DVD. The sound for HD DVD is also improved (using 5.1 analog out to my denon receiver).

Also tried it on my LCD - and similar to what I experienced this weekend - the lesser displays - of any resolution - just don't do this player justice. My budget 32in was sunbstantaily lower in PQ to the ED plasma for the same material using the same DVD player. No surprise.

So while it may be an oxymoron ED - HD DVD. If you are in the market for a DVD player - IMHO the Toshiba can indeed fit the bill."

[Christophe CHEREL]

Question bête... c'est possible de sortir du son "à l'ancienne" en DD et DTS par sortie coax digitale? Parceque moi je suis pareil que Patrice, le son DTS "normal" ça me va très bien sur le Lexicon... et je ne suis pas prêt de changer mon processeur...

[Yes_Papa]

Non, enfin, c'est pas si simple, ca dépend si le disque est en mode "advanced" ou "standart"

--Patrice

Cette remarque c'est pour ma question sur le son en HDMI ?

[ANTIPATCH]

A noter, de superbes screens du film last samourai, en page 52 du post d'AVS .... si quelqu'un veut se coller le transfert via ce post-ci.

Merci pour l'aide à la mise en page.

[laric]

ANTIPATCH, mets des liens, le moteur d'indexation souffrira moins, de même que nos amis non anglophones

A noter pour le detail technique, il est mieux d'utiliser des QUOTE dans le cas d'un recopie (partielle) de post externe, ca évite de l'indexer pour rien

--Patrice

[laric]

Question bête... c'est possible de sortir du son "à l'ancienne" en DD et DTS par sortie coax digitale? Parceque moi je suis pareil que Patrice, le son DTS "normal" ça me va très bien sur le Lexicon... et je ne suis pas prêt de changer mon processeur...

Lis les posts en page 3 & 4

Pour faire court, oui, mais ce sera du DTS plein débit pas mieux

--Patrice

[Yes_Papa]

Question bête... c'est possible de sortir du son "à l'ancienne" en DD et DTS par sortie coax digitale? Parceque moi je suis pareil que Patrice, le son DTS "normal" ça me va très bien sur le Lexicon... et je ne suis pas prêt de changer mon processeur...

Lis les posts en page 3 & 4

Pour faire court, oui, mais ce sera du DTS plein débit pas mieux

--Patrice

C'est déjà pas si mal !!!

[ajds]

Il est domage qu'il n'aient pas intégré un encodeur DTS 96/24. Mais bon, un encodeur DTS plein débit, c'est déjà un bel effort, doit pas être donnée la licence ...

[psgfan]

En l'état si je prends un ampli HDMI 1.1, pourrais je faire passer un flux audio Lossless en PCM (donc décodée par le lecteur HD-DVD) via la connexion HDMI présente entre l'ampli et le plasma ?

Est ce une question conne ?

je ne pense pas :
a mon avis il faudra :

Lecteur HD relié en HDMI 1.3 a l'ampli
Ampli relié au plasma/LCD HD ready en HDMI 1.1 ou 1.3

c ca non ?

Non!
Pour le son, le 1.1 suffit (je pense). L'ampli décompresse le son en pcm. Les 1.2 et 1.3 peuvent envoyer les flux compressés (dts-hd, sacd,...).
Pour l'image, le 1.1 suffit aussi je pense. C'est le lecteur qui décompresse l'image et envoie une suite d'images pleines (comme des photos bmp).

ok mais cette configuration sera qd meme indispensable pour profiter du dts-hd non ?

[ajds]

non, le hdmi 1.1 est capable d'envoyer du 8 canal PCM plein débit non compressé en 24 bits 192 Khz, largement de quoi satisfaire les formats audios prévus à moyen terme sur les HD-DVD/Blu-Ray.