Jai maintenant essayé pas mal de cd, sacd, un dvd-audio et je n'aime vraiment pas le son!
Est-ce que c'est les nouveaux système audio? Est-il si mauvais de son simplement?
Je m'explique. On disait que le son du cd était froid! Mais... je trouve le sacd, beaucoup plus agrésif sur cette machine! D'accord le podium est plus profond, mais c'est le seul avantage!
Mon "vieux", mais très bon Marantz cd 16, fait beaucoup mieux son boulot, mince. C'est musical à souhait et beaucoup plus chaleureux.
Par contre l'image du 747 woaaw, très bonne, mai à ce prix là!!!
ah oui, le "dts" sonne mieux et je peux le passer par l'ampli"!!!!
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deçu par le son du Pioneer 747
» 26 Juil 2002 20:20
- Indieke
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» 26 Juil 2002 21:01
J'ai un article d'absolute sound sur l'elite dv47A, modele us lisant dvd-a et sacd en plus des dvd video <==> dv 747 ???
Le voici :
===============================================
Pioneer Elite DV-47A Universal Player
By Shane Buettner
Audiophiles have been waiting for the Pioneer Elite DV-47A with great expectations: A universal player that doesn’t make us wager on the future of DVD-A or SACD, and doesn’t break the bank. At $1,200, the DV-47A delivers that and more: progressive scan video; Pioneer’s Legato Pro audio technology; 24/192-compatible DACs; and multichannel SACD and DVD-A playback. It also includes built-in Dolby Digital and DTS decoding. But is this the one we’ve been waiting for?
The Pioneer Elite series, such as the DV-09 player with its hermetically sealed disc tray, sports big, handsome gloss-black boxes with rosewood side panels and an impressive look. But the DV-47A’s finish is more "lite," however, than "Elite." It has the attractive gloss-black finish on the front but isn’t as substantial as the typical top-of-the line Elite gear. The front panel has a center-spaced loading tray and a few buttons relating to the most basic playback functions. Don’t get me wrong: This look works for me— generally, less is more on the front panel with respect to lights and buttons. The DV-47A has enough stuff. On the back, a detachable power cord, and in addition to the 5.1-channel analog output, two analog stereo outputs, and one coaxial and one TosLink optical digital audio output.
The DV-47A uses three stereo Cirrus Logic CS4392 DACs that handle PCM and DSD. These sigma-delta DACs are specified to deliver 114dB dynamic range, and THD+N is –100dB. I knew this would be the case, but it’s still shocking to open a Pioneer product and see a Sony DSD decoding chip!
The DV-47A’s digital filtering incorporates Pioneer’s Legato Pro and Hi-Bit technologies. Hi Bit increases bit depths from 16-20 bits to 24 bits, while Legato Pro upsamples 44.1kHz CD signals to 176.4kHz and DVD-based 48kHz material to 192kHz.
The DV-47A’s bass management allows the user to designate center and surround speakers as "Large," i.e., full range, or "Small," which cuts off low-frequency information and routes them either to the main left and right speakers or the subwoofer if present. Left and right speakers are always full range, according to the user manual. For reasons I don’t understand bass management can be engaged with DD, DTS, and multi-channel SACD sources but not DVD-A. This is a serious oversight; so many DVD-A and SACD players now offer this critical feature at prices lower than the DV-47A’s. Inputting the speaker distances sets up proper delays for center, surround, and subwoofer channels relative to left and right.
SACD hybrid discs that carry discrete two-channel and multichannel DSD tracks as well as a two-channel Red Book CD layer are becoming common. For SACD playback, the DV-47A can be set up to default to any of three "areas" on these discs: the Red Book CD layer, the two-channel DSD mix, or the multichannel DSD mix.
CD Playback
I started my evaluation listening to CDs with no additional signal processing engaged, and what I heard wasn’t pleasant. The DV-47A was thin and bright, with no warmth whatsoever. Bad digital. I reached hurriedly for the remote control, hoping that Legato Pro might improve things—and boy, did it!
Engaging Legato Pro changed the DV-47A’s sound quality with CDs immediately, and much for the better. With a few button clicks, top end air and front to back soundstage depth increased substantially. Holly Cole’s vocal work on Temptation [Alert Z2-81026—a wonderful CD featuring her interpretations of Tom Waits’ work] sweetened, sounding much more natural. The piano on the same Holly Cole CD opened up big time, no longer sounding as if someone had wrapped extra felt around the hammers.
So far, so good. Now would the DV-47A’s Hi-Bit feature improve things further? Not exactly. The sound warmed up even more, but the bass fattened. This closed and softened sound killed some of the lively and open effects I was enjoying with only the Legato Pro engaged. That improved depth and air with Legato Pro now thickened and disappeared in this thicker, overly warm sound. With Legato Pro turned on and Hi-Bit left off, the DV-47A was one of the best sounding CD/DVD players I’ve heard in its price range.
SACD Playback
I compared the DV-47A to what has to be regarded as its main competitor, the $1,400 Sony DVP-S9000ES. The Sony is a two-channel SACD-only player, so comparative listening was restricted to two-channel. The Sony bettered the DV-47A in every conceivable fashion. It revealed more musical information and low-level detail, sounded richer and fuller through the midrange, and wasn’t as coarse on top. On the spectacular Mark Levinson Live Recordings at Red Rose Music Volume 1 [RRM-01], Chico Freeman’s sax was noticeably thinner and less expressive on the Pioneer. The Sony resolved the reed sound, and gave much more of Freeman’s breath and air. Simon Mulligan’s piano sounded tinny and light through the Pioneer. On everything I played through the Pioneer, the spatial presentation was confined almost entirely to the speaker boundaries. The Sony, on the other hand, always placed the soundstage behind and beyond, as well as between the speakers. The Pioneer’s presentation of SACD material was more mechanical and, dare I say it, "digital." Even with Sony’s little $250 SCD-CE775, I heard much more of the natural timbres of vocals and instruments that are so striking on SACD.
DVD-A, DAD
Chesky’s Ultimate DVD Surround Sampler and 5.1 Set-Up Disc [CHDVD221] and AIX Records’ Introducing a New Music Format demonstration disc both feature DVD-A tracks recorded and mastered in multichannel at 24/96 resolution. While I’m not a fan of AIX’s approach to surround mixing (which involves very aggressive surrounds, sometimes even mixing a single instrument into all channels), their recordings, along with the more naturally mixed Chesky cuts, offered a clear glimpse at how the DV-47A performs with high-quality DVD-A recordings. While I heard some of the same lively sound and depth that I enjoyed with CDs, I also heard a veiling in the midrange on piano and strings that I know isn’t endemic to the material I was playing; 24/96 digital sounds much more open than CDs do, so I had to investigate further.
I played two-channel uncompressed linear PCM on the DV-47A and again on the Sony DVP-9000ES. Although only two-channel, this material is representative of that found on many DVD-A titles, making for a good comparison. Selections included tracks from two Chesky releases, the DAD (DVD-Video Audio Disc) Super Audio Collection sampler [CHDVD171], and Bucky Pizzarelli Swing Live [CHDVD222]. I also played Classic Records’ DAD Muddy Waters Folk Singer [DAD 1020]. In all cases, the Pioneer showed less resolution and a muted midrange character that made vocals sound bland and less involving. The Sony showed more sparkle and detail on cymbals and the vibes on the Bucky Pizzarelli disc. The Sony also presented much better lateral image focus, placing sounds from the Muddy Waters disc way out to the sides of the soundstage, and way back. Cut two on Folk Singer is called "Long Distance," and that’s exactly where Buddy Guy’s backing guitar calls from, at the far right soundstage. The Pioneer moved Guy’s guitar forward in the soundstage, and too close to the speakers for my taste.
I know it seems strange that I liked the DV-47A’s sound quality with CDs more than SACD or DVD-A. I think this is a matter of expectations. CD is inherently flawed, often sounding mechanical and digital. With that standard in mind, the DV-47A performs very well for a DVD player in its price category. But 24/96 PCM and SACD material are both vastly superior to CD, and less colored. I’ve heard players at (and even below) the DV-47A’s price that extract more of the potential from these new high-resolution formats.
Video
For those interested in this player for video, have no reservations on that side. The video quality from the interlaced and progressive scan outputs is sensational! Images are razor sharp, with almost alarming dimensionality. Pioneer’s proprietary Pure Cinema progressive-scan chip set does an excellent job of ridding the image of 3/2 pulldown and de-interlacing artifacts.
Indeed, the Pioneer DV-47A is so superb a DVD-Video player that its price is justified by its video performance alone. And although it’s quite respectable as a CD player, you won’t get what’s so special about SACD or DVD-A with this machine. While home-theater buffs are likely to love the DV-47A, it isn’t the player audiophiles have been waiting for.
Specifications
DVD-Video & multichannel DVD-A/SACD Player
Audio Outputs: One six channel single-ended analog output, two stereo analog outputs (RCA), one TosLink optical output, and one coaxial digital audio output
Video Outputs: One component-video output, two S-video outputs, two composite-video outputs
Dimensions: 16 9/16 x 3 7/8 x 11 inches
Weight: Approx. 9 lbs.
Associated Equipment
Classé SSP-75, BAT VK-50SE tube preamp, Theta Dreadnaught power amplifiers, Vandersteen 3A Signature speakers, Vandersteen VCC-5 Center channel speaker, Vandersteen VSM surround speakers, Four Vandersteen 2W-Q subwoofers for left, right, and surround channels, Mirage BPS-400 subwoofer for .1 LFE channel, Sony DVP-9000ES DVD/SACD player, AudioQuest Volcano speaker cables, AudioQuest Python Interconnect cables, all system video cables by BetterCables.Com, Richard Gray’s Power Company 1200S & 400S power line conditioners, Acoustic Innovations sound absorption, Lovan Sovereign equipment racks
Manufacturer Information
Pioneer Electronics USA Inc.
2265 E. 220th Street
Long Beach, California 90810
Phone: 800-421-1404
www.pioneerelectronics.com
Price: $1,200
===============================================
La comparaison avec le sony d'entree de gamme n'est pas tres glorieuse.
A+
Le voici :
===============================================
Pioneer Elite DV-47A Universal Player
By Shane Buettner
Audiophiles have been waiting for the Pioneer Elite DV-47A with great expectations: A universal player that doesn’t make us wager on the future of DVD-A or SACD, and doesn’t break the bank. At $1,200, the DV-47A delivers that and more: progressive scan video; Pioneer’s Legato Pro audio technology; 24/192-compatible DACs; and multichannel SACD and DVD-A playback. It also includes built-in Dolby Digital and DTS decoding. But is this the one we’ve been waiting for?
The Pioneer Elite series, such as the DV-09 player with its hermetically sealed disc tray, sports big, handsome gloss-black boxes with rosewood side panels and an impressive look. But the DV-47A’s finish is more "lite," however, than "Elite." It has the attractive gloss-black finish on the front but isn’t as substantial as the typical top-of-the line Elite gear. The front panel has a center-spaced loading tray and a few buttons relating to the most basic playback functions. Don’t get me wrong: This look works for me— generally, less is more on the front panel with respect to lights and buttons. The DV-47A has enough stuff. On the back, a detachable power cord, and in addition to the 5.1-channel analog output, two analog stereo outputs, and one coaxial and one TosLink optical digital audio output.
The DV-47A uses three stereo Cirrus Logic CS4392 DACs that handle PCM and DSD. These sigma-delta DACs are specified to deliver 114dB dynamic range, and THD+N is –100dB. I knew this would be the case, but it’s still shocking to open a Pioneer product and see a Sony DSD decoding chip!
The DV-47A’s digital filtering incorporates Pioneer’s Legato Pro and Hi-Bit technologies. Hi Bit increases bit depths from 16-20 bits to 24 bits, while Legato Pro upsamples 44.1kHz CD signals to 176.4kHz and DVD-based 48kHz material to 192kHz.
The DV-47A’s bass management allows the user to designate center and surround speakers as "Large," i.e., full range, or "Small," which cuts off low-frequency information and routes them either to the main left and right speakers or the subwoofer if present. Left and right speakers are always full range, according to the user manual. For reasons I don’t understand bass management can be engaged with DD, DTS, and multi-channel SACD sources but not DVD-A. This is a serious oversight; so many DVD-A and SACD players now offer this critical feature at prices lower than the DV-47A’s. Inputting the speaker distances sets up proper delays for center, surround, and subwoofer channels relative to left and right.
SACD hybrid discs that carry discrete two-channel and multichannel DSD tracks as well as a two-channel Red Book CD layer are becoming common. For SACD playback, the DV-47A can be set up to default to any of three "areas" on these discs: the Red Book CD layer, the two-channel DSD mix, or the multichannel DSD mix.
CD Playback
I started my evaluation listening to CDs with no additional signal processing engaged, and what I heard wasn’t pleasant. The DV-47A was thin and bright, with no warmth whatsoever. Bad digital. I reached hurriedly for the remote control, hoping that Legato Pro might improve things—and boy, did it!
Engaging Legato Pro changed the DV-47A’s sound quality with CDs immediately, and much for the better. With a few button clicks, top end air and front to back soundstage depth increased substantially. Holly Cole’s vocal work on Temptation [Alert Z2-81026—a wonderful CD featuring her interpretations of Tom Waits’ work] sweetened, sounding much more natural. The piano on the same Holly Cole CD opened up big time, no longer sounding as if someone had wrapped extra felt around the hammers.
So far, so good. Now would the DV-47A’s Hi-Bit feature improve things further? Not exactly. The sound warmed up even more, but the bass fattened. This closed and softened sound killed some of the lively and open effects I was enjoying with only the Legato Pro engaged. That improved depth and air with Legato Pro now thickened and disappeared in this thicker, overly warm sound. With Legato Pro turned on and Hi-Bit left off, the DV-47A was one of the best sounding CD/DVD players I’ve heard in its price range.
SACD Playback
I compared the DV-47A to what has to be regarded as its main competitor, the $1,400 Sony DVP-S9000ES. The Sony is a two-channel SACD-only player, so comparative listening was restricted to two-channel. The Sony bettered the DV-47A in every conceivable fashion. It revealed more musical information and low-level detail, sounded richer and fuller through the midrange, and wasn’t as coarse on top. On the spectacular Mark Levinson Live Recordings at Red Rose Music Volume 1 [RRM-01], Chico Freeman’s sax was noticeably thinner and less expressive on the Pioneer. The Sony resolved the reed sound, and gave much more of Freeman’s breath and air. Simon Mulligan’s piano sounded tinny and light through the Pioneer. On everything I played through the Pioneer, the spatial presentation was confined almost entirely to the speaker boundaries. The Sony, on the other hand, always placed the soundstage behind and beyond, as well as between the speakers. The Pioneer’s presentation of SACD material was more mechanical and, dare I say it, "digital." Even with Sony’s little $250 SCD-CE775, I heard much more of the natural timbres of vocals and instruments that are so striking on SACD.
DVD-A, DAD
Chesky’s Ultimate DVD Surround Sampler and 5.1 Set-Up Disc [CHDVD221] and AIX Records’ Introducing a New Music Format demonstration disc both feature DVD-A tracks recorded and mastered in multichannel at 24/96 resolution. While I’m not a fan of AIX’s approach to surround mixing (which involves very aggressive surrounds, sometimes even mixing a single instrument into all channels), their recordings, along with the more naturally mixed Chesky cuts, offered a clear glimpse at how the DV-47A performs with high-quality DVD-A recordings. While I heard some of the same lively sound and depth that I enjoyed with CDs, I also heard a veiling in the midrange on piano and strings that I know isn’t endemic to the material I was playing; 24/96 digital sounds much more open than CDs do, so I had to investigate further.
I played two-channel uncompressed linear PCM on the DV-47A and again on the Sony DVP-9000ES. Although only two-channel, this material is representative of that found on many DVD-A titles, making for a good comparison. Selections included tracks from two Chesky releases, the DAD (DVD-Video Audio Disc) Super Audio Collection sampler [CHDVD171], and Bucky Pizzarelli Swing Live [CHDVD222]. I also played Classic Records’ DAD Muddy Waters Folk Singer [DAD 1020]. In all cases, the Pioneer showed less resolution and a muted midrange character that made vocals sound bland and less involving. The Sony showed more sparkle and detail on cymbals and the vibes on the Bucky Pizzarelli disc. The Sony also presented much better lateral image focus, placing sounds from the Muddy Waters disc way out to the sides of the soundstage, and way back. Cut two on Folk Singer is called "Long Distance," and that’s exactly where Buddy Guy’s backing guitar calls from, at the far right soundstage. The Pioneer moved Guy’s guitar forward in the soundstage, and too close to the speakers for my taste.
I know it seems strange that I liked the DV-47A’s sound quality with CDs more than SACD or DVD-A. I think this is a matter of expectations. CD is inherently flawed, often sounding mechanical and digital. With that standard in mind, the DV-47A performs very well for a DVD player in its price category. But 24/96 PCM and SACD material are both vastly superior to CD, and less colored. I’ve heard players at (and even below) the DV-47A’s price that extract more of the potential from these new high-resolution formats.
Video
For those interested in this player for video, have no reservations on that side. The video quality from the interlaced and progressive scan outputs is sensational! Images are razor sharp, with almost alarming dimensionality. Pioneer’s proprietary Pure Cinema progressive-scan chip set does an excellent job of ridding the image of 3/2 pulldown and de-interlacing artifacts.
Indeed, the Pioneer DV-47A is so superb a DVD-Video player that its price is justified by its video performance alone. And although it’s quite respectable as a CD player, you won’t get what’s so special about SACD or DVD-A with this machine. While home-theater buffs are likely to love the DV-47A, it isn’t the player audiophiles have been waiting for.
Specifications
DVD-Video & multichannel DVD-A/SACD Player
Audio Outputs: One six channel single-ended analog output, two stereo analog outputs (RCA), one TosLink optical output, and one coaxial digital audio output
Video Outputs: One component-video output, two S-video outputs, two composite-video outputs
Dimensions: 16 9/16 x 3 7/8 x 11 inches
Weight: Approx. 9 lbs.
Associated Equipment
Classé SSP-75, BAT VK-50SE tube preamp, Theta Dreadnaught power amplifiers, Vandersteen 3A Signature speakers, Vandersteen VCC-5 Center channel speaker, Vandersteen VSM surround speakers, Four Vandersteen 2W-Q subwoofers for left, right, and surround channels, Mirage BPS-400 subwoofer for .1 LFE channel, Sony DVP-9000ES DVD/SACD player, AudioQuest Volcano speaker cables, AudioQuest Python Interconnect cables, all system video cables by BetterCables.Com, Richard Gray’s Power Company 1200S & 400S power line conditioners, Acoustic Innovations sound absorption, Lovan Sovereign equipment racks
Manufacturer Information
Pioneer Electronics USA Inc.
2265 E. 220th Street
Long Beach, California 90810
Phone: 800-421-1404
www.pioneerelectronics.com
Price: $1,200
===============================================
La comparaison avec le sony d'entree de gamme n'est pas tres glorieuse.
A+
- shacard
- Messages: 5347
- Inscription Forum: 16 Oct 2000 2:00
- Localisation: limousin
-
» 26 Juil 2002 22:34
Dans le dernier numéro de Haute Fidélité, ils n'en disent pas que du bien: ils conseillent même de l'utiliser comme drive avec un convertisseur externe, c'est pour dire!
En gros, ils disent que pour avoir un lecteur multistandard à budget raisonnable, Pioneer a fait des économies sur certaines parties, comme l'alim et les étages de sortie analogique...
Leur verdict: bonne perfo pour l'image, bof pour le son.
Leur CR confirme donc tes impressions...
a+
jb
En gros, ils disent que pour avoir un lecteur multistandard à budget raisonnable, Pioneer a fait des économies sur certaines parties, comme l'alim et les étages de sortie analogique...
Leur verdict: bonne perfo pour l'image, bof pour le son.
Leur CR confirme donc tes impressions...
a+
jb
- jbcauchy
- Messages: 3117
- Inscription Forum: 22 Oct 2001 2:00
- Localisation: Chatellerault
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» 27 Juil 2002 10:20
C'est quand-même triste! 
Ok, l'image est super, mais l'image du lecteur dvd, acheté pour :130 €, pour mes enfants, n'est pas si mauvais: DD, dts ready, sortie s-vhs et YUV! Sur un téléviseur normal, la différence ne saute pas au yeux!
Ok, l'image est super, mais l'image du lecteur dvd, acheté pour :130 €, pour mes enfants, n'est pas si mauvais: DD, dts ready, sortie s-vhs et YUV! Sur un téléviseur normal, la différence ne saute pas au yeux!
- Indieke
- Pro-Fabricant
- Messages: 4823
- Inscription Forum: 13 Aoû 2000 2:00
- Localisation: Draguignan, France
-
Image : OK -- Son : Pas OK
» 27 Juil 2002 10:40
Je suis entièrement d’accord avec tout ça : Le DV-747 est excellent au niveau de la qualité de l’image mais est vraiment décevant au niveau de la qualité sonore.
En faisant des recherches sur le Net, je me suis rendu compte que beaucoup de personnes étaient de cet avis aussi.
J’ai rapporté le mien tellement j’étais déçu et aussi parce qu’il avait un problème de centrage de l’image en RVB
Laurent
En faisant des recherches sur le Net, je me suis rendu compte que beaucoup de personnes étaient de cet avis aussi.
J’ai rapporté le mien tellement j’étais déçu et aussi parce qu’il avait un problème de centrage de l’image en RVB
Laurent
- Laurent B.
- Messages: 6375
- Inscription Forum: 13 Mai 2001 2:00
- Localisation: ° Mars °
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